I called them Christian jihadist. Willing to use whatever power they can to achieve their ends. And like Muslim jihadist, women are most often their victims. Hard to imagine how Jesus the son of Mary feels about such behavior.
Liberal or conservative, if someone thinks they are always right and can't tell the difference between their own opinion and the will of God / the right side of history / etc., they're going to be insufferable and dogmatic. The irony is that humble people who acknowledge they might be wrong, come across as mentally and emotionally stronger than the overbearing people who treat anyone who disagrees with them as heretics.
I’ve generally found Substack a more thoughtful and nuanced place than Facebook and Instagram have proven to be. It allows for more words to explore that nuance. I’ve also found it a better place to look for common ground than the division that exists in other spheres, and that it doesn’t require name-calling of another group to show that you are a bona fide member of yours. This entire idea could have been presented with that generosity of spirit, because what I think you’re saying, in essence, is - “I don’t agree with many on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but here’s where we have some come on ground- don’t punish these women…..” What a world where we can admit commonness instead of tearing apart.
Count you out of what, though? Conservatism? Christianity? Or just fellowship with those ruthless groups of circling dogs calling themselves believers? Cause I'm definitely out of fellowship with them. But I won't be dropping the monikers Christian or conservative from my personal descriptive identifiers any time soon.
They will not destroy the legacy of truth, no matter how avidly they try.
I think the greatest counter we have is to demonstrate the love of Christ in our daily walk.
People will know the real Christians by their love and the demonstrated fruits of God's goodness.
I was a part of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America for 20 years, one of the more niche Calvinistic denominations, and I can speak to the experience of growing up with this sense that my theology was air-tight and absolute. In my teens I was a certified cyber bully on the internet, debating my classmates in my online homeschool classical school forums and making them feel stupid for not believing in predestination. And I felt so proud of myself.
There's this logic in Reformed theology that all of our life flows from our theology. However, I never saw this logic applied in the inverse, as in, how about we test the soundness of our theology by the fruit of our lives? Instead, it was always applied presumptively. As long as you were correctly indoctrinated, everything else in your life would fall into place. Spirituality was completely intellectualized and never embodied. And as long as someone preached all the right theology, it was offensive to ever question their behavior or actions.
It wasn't until shortly after I was married and became a mother that I realized through what I now believe was 100% the Holy Spirit in my life, that I wasn't exhibiting any of the fruits of the Spirit. I wasn't loving. I wasn't joyful. I wasn't a peaceful person. I wasn't gentle. Not only was I not these things, but I didn't even know what it meant to be these things. What did it look like in practice? What did it feel like to experience these things? I was spiritually bankrupt and my niche elite theology and sense of superiority had kept me from realizing this my entire life.
I think the Holy Spirit let me really see myself for who I was apart from all of my self-righteousness. I had always viewed myself through this narrative of someone who “has everything right” and was raised in the ultimately correct denomination and doctrine, instead of viewing myself objectively.
Very interesting. Was there a key moment when the lightbulb went off or was it more of a gradual process? Did something occur where you had an epiphany that you were dreadfully wrong? I'm not trying to pry, but I always find it so interesting when God breaks through all the fog and when people experience the moment (or series of moments) when something significantly changes. That's usually when powerful things happen in the lives of people.
I am presuming that you have no intention of influencing the opinions of Christians who do not identify as "conservative", given the harsh, paint-with-a-broad-brush condemnation of the first few paragraphs. (It occurs to me that your point about being theologically arrogant is a cautionary tale for all of us.) There are smart, educated and sincerely faithful people who have a variety of opinions on these issues. God help us get to the place where we can have civil dialogue and remember that we are dealing with people, not just ideas.
Idk man, the Bible is pretty explicit about the evils of human, and especially child, sacrifice. It's one of the really evil things that all the Mesopotamian pagans were doing that Israel followed along with and was exiled for.
"Yes, just laws are necessary and they are pedagogical teachers of the good, of course, but legal statutes CANNOT transform hearts and infuse people with reverence for God’s righteous ways."
This equally applies to laws against actual first degree murder. While there are arguments that are both theological and sound being used by both sides this one is a non-starter. Why would this not apply to actual theft, wanton murder, etc? Repeal the laws against running people over with your car because they won't transform hearts? You see what I'm getting at.
Dave, I could be wrong but my understanding is that she is not arguing that abortion *shouldn’t* be illegal, she does say she identifies with the “pro-life” side that is working to gradually change abortion laws while also educating and providing options to the vulnerable women have have been deceived into thinking that their babies aren’t people who are choosing to have abortions.
She seems to be trying to to tell the so-called “Theobros” that changing the law does not bring by righteousness on a saving level because people will still harbor hatred and murder in their hearts, which can only remedied by the cross, not by laws. That the Lord’s kindness leads to repentance. There seems to be little to no care for the salvation of those who have gotten abortions.
We should still work toward making abortion illegal, while calling for those who have chosen abortion to repent because they have a good, Holy, loving Father that still wants to be in relationship with them, even though they have chosen to do wrong (just like all of us).
I was raised in this environment. There was such a profound emphasis on believing the “right” things. How do you know what is right? Just consult the reformed catechism: the John MacArthur study Bible. Once a Calvinist corrected me for telling someone that God loves them. Apparently, you can’t know this for certain. After all, they may not be part of the elect….
I used to struggle a lot with what I was taught was right. Now, it’s simple to me. I’ve realized the fruits of this theology are cruelty so it cannot be the truth. I’ve witnessed in my personal life and observed it over and over again from prominent reformed theologians.
It’s important to say that there are exceptions to this trend. Gavin Ortlund is an example of someone who is doing incredible work from a reformed perspective.
Good essay and strongly agree. The letter versus the spirit. These people are Christian Muslims, addicted to power and the feeling of being those who are "right". They have not love, and might acquire it as they grow older and mature, or not.
I hate the vicious revenge ideas that have accompanied Trump's reelection. Any Christian, and even any mature human being, will realize this is totally wrongheaded. We shouldn't become that which we despise.
And I hate these extremist abortion laws that have prevented women from receiving abortions that are necessary medically, like the recent case where the woman had to carry a dead fetus because doctors wouldn't abort it for fear of legal penalty.
And re MacArthur, he is bizarre because much of his teaching is good but the cessationist doctrine is insupportable, there are just too many credible accounts of God's supernatural intervention.
But to circle around to the main point, thanks for calling out these people's misrepresentation of Christianity.
I called them Christian jihadist. Willing to use whatever power they can to achieve their ends. And like Muslim jihadist, women are most often their victims. Hard to imagine how Jesus the son of Mary feels about such behavior.
Really? 🧐
Liberal or conservative, if someone thinks they are always right and can't tell the difference between their own opinion and the will of God / the right side of history / etc., they're going to be insufferable and dogmatic. The irony is that humble people who acknowledge they might be wrong, come across as mentally and emotionally stronger than the overbearing people who treat anyone who disagrees with them as heretics.
I’ve generally found Substack a more thoughtful and nuanced place than Facebook and Instagram have proven to be. It allows for more words to explore that nuance. I’ve also found it a better place to look for common ground than the division that exists in other spheres, and that it doesn’t require name-calling of another group to show that you are a bona fide member of yours. This entire idea could have been presented with that generosity of spirit, because what I think you’re saying, in essence, is - “I don’t agree with many on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but here’s where we have some come on ground- don’t punish these women…..” What a world where we can admit commonness instead of tearing apart.
I think Jesus would call them Pharisees. They know the law, but have no love in their hearts.
I'm impressed that someone Christian would acknowledge the cruelty.
Love the article, 100% agree.
Count you out of what, though? Conservatism? Christianity? Or just fellowship with those ruthless groups of circling dogs calling themselves believers? Cause I'm definitely out of fellowship with them. But I won't be dropping the monikers Christian or conservative from my personal descriptive identifiers any time soon.
They will not destroy the legacy of truth, no matter how avidly they try.
I think the greatest counter we have is to demonstrate the love of Christ in our daily walk.
People will know the real Christians by their love and the demonstrated fruits of God's goodness.
I was a part of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America for 20 years, one of the more niche Calvinistic denominations, and I can speak to the experience of growing up with this sense that my theology was air-tight and absolute. In my teens I was a certified cyber bully on the internet, debating my classmates in my online homeschool classical school forums and making them feel stupid for not believing in predestination. And I felt so proud of myself.
There's this logic in Reformed theology that all of our life flows from our theology. However, I never saw this logic applied in the inverse, as in, how about we test the soundness of our theology by the fruit of our lives? Instead, it was always applied presumptively. As long as you were correctly indoctrinated, everything else in your life would fall into place. Spirituality was completely intellectualized and never embodied. And as long as someone preached all the right theology, it was offensive to ever question their behavior or actions.
It wasn't until shortly after I was married and became a mother that I realized through what I now believe was 100% the Holy Spirit in my life, that I wasn't exhibiting any of the fruits of the Spirit. I wasn't loving. I wasn't joyful. I wasn't a peaceful person. I wasn't gentle. Not only was I not these things, but I didn't even know what it meant to be these things. What did it look like in practice? What did it feel like to experience these things? I was spiritually bankrupt and my niche elite theology and sense of superiority had kept me from realizing this my entire life.
that is fascinating. I'm curious...how did the Holy Spirit specifically precipitate this recognition? How did that happen?
I think the Holy Spirit let me really see myself for who I was apart from all of my self-righteousness. I had always viewed myself through this narrative of someone who “has everything right” and was raised in the ultimately correct denomination and doctrine, instead of viewing myself objectively.
Very interesting. Was there a key moment when the lightbulb went off or was it more of a gradual process? Did something occur where you had an epiphany that you were dreadfully wrong? I'm not trying to pry, but I always find it so interesting when God breaks through all the fog and when people experience the moment (or series of moments) when something significantly changes. That's usually when powerful things happen in the lives of people.
I am presuming that you have no intention of influencing the opinions of Christians who do not identify as "conservative", given the harsh, paint-with-a-broad-brush condemnation of the first few paragraphs. (It occurs to me that your point about being theologically arrogant is a cautionary tale for all of us.) There are smart, educated and sincerely faithful people who have a variety of opinions on these issues. God help us get to the place where we can have civil dialogue and remember that we are dealing with people, not just ideas.
Idk man, the Bible is pretty explicit about the evils of human, and especially child, sacrifice. It's one of the really evil things that all the Mesopotamian pagans were doing that Israel followed along with and was exiled for.
I disagree with this argument:
"Yes, just laws are necessary and they are pedagogical teachers of the good, of course, but legal statutes CANNOT transform hearts and infuse people with reverence for God’s righteous ways."
This equally applies to laws against actual first degree murder. While there are arguments that are both theological and sound being used by both sides this one is a non-starter. Why would this not apply to actual theft, wanton murder, etc? Repeal the laws against running people over with your car because they won't transform hearts? You see what I'm getting at.
Dave, I could be wrong but my understanding is that she is not arguing that abortion *shouldn’t* be illegal, she does say she identifies with the “pro-life” side that is working to gradually change abortion laws while also educating and providing options to the vulnerable women have have been deceived into thinking that their babies aren’t people who are choosing to have abortions.
She seems to be trying to to tell the so-called “Theobros” that changing the law does not bring by righteousness on a saving level because people will still harbor hatred and murder in their hearts, which can only remedied by the cross, not by laws. That the Lord’s kindness leads to repentance. There seems to be little to no care for the salvation of those who have gotten abortions.
We should still work toward making abortion illegal, while calling for those who have chosen abortion to repent because they have a good, Holy, loving Father that still wants to be in relationship with them, even though they have chosen to do wrong (just like all of us).
I was raised in this environment. There was such a profound emphasis on believing the “right” things. How do you know what is right? Just consult the reformed catechism: the John MacArthur study Bible. Once a Calvinist corrected me for telling someone that God loves them. Apparently, you can’t know this for certain. After all, they may not be part of the elect….
I used to struggle a lot with what I was taught was right. Now, it’s simple to me. I’ve realized the fruits of this theology are cruelty so it cannot be the truth. I’ve witnessed in my personal life and observed it over and over again from prominent reformed theologians.
It’s important to say that there are exceptions to this trend. Gavin Ortlund is an example of someone who is doing incredible work from a reformed perspective.
"Once a Calvinist corrected me for telling someone that God loves them."
The sadness that statement fills me with is otherwordly.
Good essay and strongly agree. The letter versus the spirit. These people are Christian Muslims, addicted to power and the feeling of being those who are "right". They have not love, and might acquire it as they grow older and mature, or not.
I hate the vicious revenge ideas that have accompanied Trump's reelection. Any Christian, and even any mature human being, will realize this is totally wrongheaded. We shouldn't become that which we despise.
And I hate these extremist abortion laws that have prevented women from receiving abortions that are necessary medically, like the recent case where the woman had to carry a dead fetus because doctors wouldn't abort it for fear of legal penalty.
And re MacArthur, he is bizarre because much of his teaching is good but the cessationist doctrine is insupportable, there are just too many credible accounts of God's supernatural intervention.
But to circle around to the main point, thanks for calling out these people's misrepresentation of Christianity.
Now this is getting close to a path forward.
I agree with everything you shared here! It's a repulsive movement full of pride. Nothing of Jesus in them.
Very well said. Don't let's add meaning to "winsome" that it doesn't have, though. We should be both orthodox and winsome, in the literal sense.
There is no growing Conservative Christian cruelty.
They are simply rejecting Jesus. We need to stop calling them Christians because they are not.