On my 13th birthday, my well-intended parents took me out to a fancy waterfront restaurant, where they announced that I was becoming a young lady, and it was time for “the talk.” It was a super awkward affair that essentially boiled down to “Don’t have sex until you get married.”
As an independent Baptist Church Pastor, your article and experience breaks my heart. This battle of belittling women and degrading them is so rampant in the circles I come from and often still run in. The peer pressure on Pastors, silences them. I pray for you and the many women I meet that have been devastated by the church. Thank you for not quitting on Jesus.
So sorry for the harm done to you in childhood and subsequently in your later teenage years. Your story confirms that God weeps and is angry about a paternalistic power culture in the church that silences the concerns of women and their very important voice. And He calls you His beloved as you have bravely fought for wholeness and goodness. Keep speaking.
Thank you for writing this. I read the TGC article and was grossed out and discouraged. You articulated the issues so well. I think some of this stuff is so ingrained in Christian culture that it’s hard for some people to see.
As someone planted in complementarian circles, and who remains because I've actually seen so much humility and strong stands against abuse from young men -- mostly in some of the rural churches -- AGREED 100%!!! .....Ironically it's so many grown men who have been living out a rebellious spirit. On the whole I still see men generally being imbued by God with a certain directionality of leadership, a generative, creative, building, dragon-slaying ability that differs from our awesome nurturing creativity in ways that I have yet to express... that energy has to be channeled in Godly ways. ***I groan inwardly when people try to write off complaints about many males' sex-obsession, abuse, violence and tyranny as simply 'angry/illogical feminism' -- it is so wrong. So so off-base and so wrong.***
We as women are grieved -- so many of us traumatized by men in the church -- and accountability is part of the healing regimen for us all, men and women. God bless you for writing this! I believe many men are quietly listening. May they reflect prayerfully on their sisters, wives, mothers 🙏
I realize I'm late to the game, but I still wished to leave a small comment to thank you for your article.
I grew up conservative Baptist with a shade of complimentarian views, but thankfully my church was not nearly as hard line about it as you have described. But when trying to find a church to attend once I graduated college and moved out of state on my own, I ran into such churches and I was pretty appalled by the constant insinuation that women had to cover up to not sin by leading men to lust. Very little was taught on the men's side.
While I still believe in masculine leadership in a marriage and church, i also balk at the idea that a woman cannot ever have any good council to give a man or ought to never, ever "teach" a man. There is no consideration that in many churches day that have many more women in attendence than men, that their are seasoned, spiritual mature women who would know much more and would give significant wise council to young men still green and untried.
I do rail against the forgotten (or ignored) description God gave for Eve when He brought her to Adam: she was to be his helper and his compliment. Being head of the household is not meant that the husband makes all the decisions and the wife is to never speak up but to always obey (my poor great grandmother endured those kind of conditions in her marriage to a very domineering man), but to consider her council as a wise general would his lieutenants.
Further, men who are quick to quote the verses on women's submission and spend 3/4 of their sermons expounding on submission always seem quick to forget the command to the men: a man is to love and cherish his wife and Christ loved the church.
I do praise God for keeping me safe from the foolishness my own heart would have followed and bringing me a good man who shows his love every day to me and who listens to my advice and gives me wise council in return, a husband would wants to love me as he is supposed to and that I can respect willingly and gladly.
But too often the people of the church seem to completely corrupt the clear teachings of God's word. It frustrates me to no end how much the modern church misinterprets Scripture and teaches cultural standards back up by bad interpretations as "Bible" when they are not close to what the Bible actually says. And I long to find other Christians who want to learn what the Bible says for itself and be open to examining all those old teachings that Preacher So and So from Grandpappy's day taught.
Its humbling and so freeing to learn what the Bible actually teaches and to see how badly mankind can get it wrong, even though who claim to be Sola Scriptura. Mankind truly are sheep who like to follow along and group think!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. While we probably won’t fully agree about the God-ordained roles of men and women, I do appreciate your nuanced approach. ❤️
Hello sweet Bam, please read "How God Sees Women" by Terrance Williams for correct translation and interpretation of the Scriptures about women. Sadly, we've been deceived by translators and interpretors. I've been studying each passage for 5 years and am stunned at the bad teaching. It's only "plain reading of the Scriptures" if you can trust your English translation, and you can't.
Kaeley, I responded too quickly. I’m so sorry for your experience & re-trigger. You are so courageous, this is helpful to many like me. I resonated with your experience even now decades later and healed. Thank you.
Thank you for naming and putting into words the forces I have come against as a female leader for decades and still have trouble articulating. The sexualized objectification of women who are told to submit is rampant and has not been calmed. I'm very concerned for the Evangelical church that continues this narrative.
God love you, Kaeley. We've lived different lives, but we have so much in common. Never quiet down. Never "go home."
Wow. You articulated the problem so well. Thank you for writing it.
As an independent Baptist Church Pastor, your article and experience breaks my heart. This battle of belittling women and degrading them is so rampant in the circles I come from and often still run in. The peer pressure on Pastors, silences them. I pray for you and the many women I meet that have been devastated by the church. Thank you for not quitting on Jesus.
So sorry for the harm done to you in childhood and subsequently in your later teenage years. Your story confirms that God weeps and is angry about a paternalistic power culture in the church that silences the concerns of women and their very important voice. And He calls you His beloved as you have bravely fought for wholeness and goodness. Keep speaking.
Excellent article!! The “patriarchy” is falling!
Dropping 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Your story could be my wife's. Thank you for the courage to write it
Thank you for writing this. I read the TGC article and was grossed out and discouraged. You articulated the issues so well. I think some of this stuff is so ingrained in Christian culture that it’s hard for some people to see.
As someone planted in complementarian circles, and who remains because I've actually seen so much humility and strong stands against abuse from young men -- mostly in some of the rural churches -- AGREED 100%!!! .....Ironically it's so many grown men who have been living out a rebellious spirit. On the whole I still see men generally being imbued by God with a certain directionality of leadership, a generative, creative, building, dragon-slaying ability that differs from our awesome nurturing creativity in ways that I have yet to express... that energy has to be channeled in Godly ways. ***I groan inwardly when people try to write off complaints about many males' sex-obsession, abuse, violence and tyranny as simply 'angry/illogical feminism' -- it is so wrong. So so off-base and so wrong.***
We as women are grieved -- so many of us traumatized by men in the church -- and accountability is part of the healing regimen for us all, men and women. God bless you for writing this! I believe many men are quietly listening. May they reflect prayerfully on their sisters, wives, mothers 🙏
Deenah Joseph
James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
This should be a fearful verse to a good many men in Christendom. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, experiences, and observations.
I realize I'm late to the game, but I still wished to leave a small comment to thank you for your article.
I grew up conservative Baptist with a shade of complimentarian views, but thankfully my church was not nearly as hard line about it as you have described. But when trying to find a church to attend once I graduated college and moved out of state on my own, I ran into such churches and I was pretty appalled by the constant insinuation that women had to cover up to not sin by leading men to lust. Very little was taught on the men's side.
While I still believe in masculine leadership in a marriage and church, i also balk at the idea that a woman cannot ever have any good council to give a man or ought to never, ever "teach" a man. There is no consideration that in many churches day that have many more women in attendence than men, that their are seasoned, spiritual mature women who would know much more and would give significant wise council to young men still green and untried.
I do rail against the forgotten (or ignored) description God gave for Eve when He brought her to Adam: she was to be his helper and his compliment. Being head of the household is not meant that the husband makes all the decisions and the wife is to never speak up but to always obey (my poor great grandmother endured those kind of conditions in her marriage to a very domineering man), but to consider her council as a wise general would his lieutenants.
Further, men who are quick to quote the verses on women's submission and spend 3/4 of their sermons expounding on submission always seem quick to forget the command to the men: a man is to love and cherish his wife and Christ loved the church.
I do praise God for keeping me safe from the foolishness my own heart would have followed and bringing me a good man who shows his love every day to me and who listens to my advice and gives me wise council in return, a husband would wants to love me as he is supposed to and that I can respect willingly and gladly.
But too often the people of the church seem to completely corrupt the clear teachings of God's word. It frustrates me to no end how much the modern church misinterprets Scripture and teaches cultural standards back up by bad interpretations as "Bible" when they are not close to what the Bible actually says. And I long to find other Christians who want to learn what the Bible says for itself and be open to examining all those old teachings that Preacher So and So from Grandpappy's day taught.
Its humbling and so freeing to learn what the Bible actually teaches and to see how badly mankind can get it wrong, even though who claim to be Sola Scriptura. Mankind truly are sheep who like to follow along and group think!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. While we probably won’t fully agree about the God-ordained roles of men and women, I do appreciate your nuanced approach. ❤️
As I read more of your articles, I would say that yes, we do come at life from different angles :)
That’s okay. Echo chambers are boring.
Hello sweet Bam, please read "How God Sees Women" by Terrance Williams for correct translation and interpretation of the Scriptures about women. Sadly, we've been deceived by translators and interpretors. I've been studying each passage for 5 years and am stunned at the bad teaching. It's only "plain reading of the Scriptures" if you can trust your English translation, and you can't.
Best I’ve read on the matter, thank you!!!
Kaeley, I responded too quickly. I’m so sorry for your experience & re-trigger. You are so courageous, this is helpful to many like me. I resonated with your experience even now decades later and healed. Thank you.
Thank you for naming and putting into words the forces I have come against as a female leader for decades and still have trouble articulating. The sexualized objectification of women who are told to submit is rampant and has not been calmed. I'm very concerned for the Evangelical church that continues this narrative.
Thank you! I can relate on so many levels. All of these issues make my blood boil more than just about anything else.
Excellent article! Thank you for voicing the story and frustration of many of us.
This is beautiful. Thank you for writing this.