There is this unbiblical thinking in what you called reformed circles that we need to keep the church pure. So we separate from people that Jesus has not separated from. It also isolates us from being able to love our neighbors and reaching sinners by identifying with them. You end up forgetting that you yourself are a sinner saved by grace. Andy Stanley has been condemned for saying that he refuses to draw a line that keeps sinners out and instead draws a circle of grace that draws them in. I like this statement. But Andy seems to be forgetting that a circle has a line too. That line is whether or not you have come to Jesus or not; whether or not you are walking in grace.
One of the other sad things is that these lines that keep people our are arbitrary. Why is pride not on that line? Why is lust in your heart not on that line? d
I determined to draw no line that Jesus did not draw. And I will draw the lines that Jesus drew. His line was real simple... Do you come to him for help or don't you.
Yes, this is messy and grace is messy. Jesus became sin for me so that I (without any works) might have the righteousness of God.
This keep the church pure crowd often cries loudly about "grace alone, and not of works" but they judge everything by works and thus live out that it is about works.
This crowd is like the pharisees keeping the lost out of the kingdom and when they do get a convert they make them also a child of hell.
I'm a lifelong member of the General Council of the Assemblies of God, which is by the way the denomination that John Ashcroft belongs to. Here is the 2023 Constitution and Bylaws. Ministers who officiate a same-sex wedding will have his or her credentials revoked without question (you can go to ag.org under the resources tab and find the Constitution and Bylaws).
It's the slippery slope fallacy to say that ordaining women leads to acceptance of same-sex marriage.
Now we are dealing with a massive sexual abuse scandal in Chi Alpha, which is the worst scandal we've had since the Bakker/Swaggart scandals of the 80s (I came to Christ under the ministry of Jimmy Swaggart's son, Donnie in 2012). There was a massive coverup of both sexual abuse and the fact that sex offender was associating with Texas Chi Alpha chapters and a lawsuit regarding the scandal was just filed last week in Houston. I did a post on the lawsuit and ended up linking the lawsuit in a footnote. My alma mater just happens to be the epicenter of the scandal. As of now, I believe seven ministers have had their credentials revoked for their part in the scandal (three I know of for sure and the other four I'm positive their credentials were revoked).
I don't know much about this whole fight. I grew up in The Church of Christ. Women were permitted to teach all ages 16 and under. Men taught over that age. I haven't been to church in quite a while, but I believe this is still the practice. I can't ever remember women wanting to preach to the whole congregation. It's funny the things you don't think about when they aren't presented.
There is this unbiblical thinking in what you called reformed circles that we need to keep the church pure. So we separate from people that Jesus has not separated from. It also isolates us from being able to love our neighbors and reaching sinners by identifying with them. You end up forgetting that you yourself are a sinner saved by grace. Andy Stanley has been condemned for saying that he refuses to draw a line that keeps sinners out and instead draws a circle of grace that draws them in. I like this statement. But Andy seems to be forgetting that a circle has a line too. That line is whether or not you have come to Jesus or not; whether or not you are walking in grace.
One of the other sad things is that these lines that keep people our are arbitrary. Why is pride not on that line? Why is lust in your heart not on that line? d
I determined to draw no line that Jesus did not draw. And I will draw the lines that Jesus drew. His line was real simple... Do you come to him for help or don't you.
Yes, this is messy and grace is messy. Jesus became sin for me so that I (without any works) might have the righteousness of God.
This keep the church pure crowd often cries loudly about "grace alone, and not of works" but they judge everything by works and thus live out that it is about works.
This crowd is like the pharisees keeping the lost out of the kingdom and when they do get a convert they make them also a child of hell.
Very, very well said!
I'm a lifelong member of the General Council of the Assemblies of God, which is by the way the denomination that John Ashcroft belongs to. Here is the 2023 Constitution and Bylaws. Ministers who officiate a same-sex wedding will have his or her credentials revoked without question (you can go to ag.org under the resources tab and find the Constitution and Bylaws).
file:///C:/Users/alewis/Downloads/2023%20Constitution%20and%20Bylaws%20(1).pdf
Here's the position paper.
https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Homosexuality-Marriage-and-Sexual-Identity
It's the slippery slope fallacy to say that ordaining women leads to acceptance of same-sex marriage.
Now we are dealing with a massive sexual abuse scandal in Chi Alpha, which is the worst scandal we've had since the Bakker/Swaggart scandals of the 80s (I came to Christ under the ministry of Jimmy Swaggart's son, Donnie in 2012). There was a massive coverup of both sexual abuse and the fact that sex offender was associating with Texas Chi Alpha chapters and a lawsuit regarding the scandal was just filed last week in Houston. I did a post on the lawsuit and ended up linking the lawsuit in a footnote. My alma mater just happens to be the epicenter of the scandal. As of now, I believe seven ministers have had their credentials revoked for their part in the scandal (three I know of for sure and the other four I'm positive their credentials were revoked).
https://thepentecostalwesleyan.substack.com/p/chi-alpha-sex-abuse-scandal-lawsuit
I don't know much about this whole fight. I grew up in The Church of Christ. Women were permitted to teach all ages 16 and under. Men taught over that age. I haven't been to church in quite a while, but I believe this is still the practice. I can't ever remember women wanting to preach to the whole congregation. It's funny the things you don't think about when they aren't presented.