I’m loving that both men and women are commenting.
Of of my concerns is that in speaking candidly about how terrible porn is, we can inadvertently trigger a shame response in those who struggle with it, inspiring them to just increase their efforts to hide the problem rather than addressing it head on.
To be clear, it would be entirely their fault if they chose this route. We should be free to say whatever needs to be said. Still, knowing human nature for what it is, it’s not a terrible thing to try to strike a balance or work to soften the blow if there’s a way.
I want to extend grace and not eliminate the majority of the dating pool, but ultimately I fall on the side of “don’t date a man who struggles with porn.” If he really wants to date you, pursues you, and really wants a chance, allow him to present to you his action plan, his accountability measures, initiate conversations about how he’s growing/changing, and regularly be the one to update you. I don’t think it’s healthy *in a dating relationship* for a woman who is not married to a man to have to take on the accountability role that recovering from porn demands. Too many married women are forced to in order to try to save their marriage. But if you’re dating and he’s not the one initiating every one of those steps? Not worth it.
Someone reached out to me privately and mentioned that, in his own journey to overcome porn, he’s had to learn not to be too specific when sharing the details of his struggle with his accountability partners.
He said, deep down, just talking about the details was a way for him to secretly relive the fantasy in his brain. He also said that graphic descriptions can be a stumbling block for accountability partners.
I appreciated his perspective. I wouldn’t have thought of this.
Here is what I know from researching the subject. Porn is an addiction and rewires the brain. It is said to be more potent than cocaine. Porn kills the soul, it kills the family, and it fuels abuse of women and children who are used/abused to make it. There are few things more atrocious than porn. Do not get romantically involved with someone who watches it, it will hurt you to the core. A majority (not all) of abusers are porn consumers.
It takes dedication with specific programs, very narrow accountability, and an especially close walk with the Lord to get free of that bondage. It takes humility and being willing to recognize fully the pain that being a consumer of that filth brings to so many people.
One can be helping with providing support and accountability for a friend struggling with it but getting romantically involve will mostly bring a lot of pain.
I have an honest question: what if you're not religious? Is religion the only antidote to porn? I'm asking in 100% good faith. Porn ruins lives, not just for Christians. It's not because it's the biblical definition of a sin, it's genuinely bad for everyone, from the "performers", to the producers, to the consumers, whether one believes God condemns it, or not. I have a young daughter and I honestly don't know what to tell her about dating anymore. I counsel her to wait until marriage to have sex, her body is precious and hers alone, and not to date anyone who watches porn, but I'm feeling pretty hopeless that such men will exist by the time she's old enough to date, given the ubiquitousness of porn. You can't even watch a TV commercial without being bombarded with imagery and content that would have been considered "soft-core" porn just a few decades ago! I'll keep checking the comments because I genuinely want guidance and advice. Thank you for posting this!
Good question. I write from a Christian perspective, and the initial question she posed was specific to the Christian response, but yes, it’s relatively easy to denounce porn from a secular angle, and I don’t think anyone does that better than the site I referenced in my blog: Fight the New Drug.
Their research is steeped in scientific analysis that’s really hard to dispute. I would definitely start there! Www.fightthenewdrug.org
Thank you so much for your response! I'll definitely check that out. I'm just wondering if religion really is the only antidote to this scourge. It's just so crazy that we live in these times where people can't strengthen their own inner moral compass without being ordered to specifically by God. I'm not opposed to religion in any way, and I do believe in God, but my family doesn't go to church. My husband comes from a jehovah's witness family, so he's very opposed to religion. It's a weird place to be in, especially when it comes to raising good, moral humans! I guess it begs the larger question: can we be decent, loving, and moral without religion? Maybe not.
I’m not going to lie to you; I think I it definitely helps to believe in an ultimate, fixed standard of good.
There are a lot of agnostic and atheist (especially in radical feminist) communities who can just easily identify the inherent harm of the porn industry and denounce it outright on the grounds that it causes so much human suffering, and they think that is immoral without having to connect it to a god. I can’t speak for them, so I won’t presume to try, but I know a lot of them follow this blog, so hopefully some will chime in and offer their perspective.
Personally, my mind won’t let me rest there because I can’t avoid a wrestling match with questions like, “If there is no God, does it ultimately matter if people harm others? If we’re all a cosmic accident and the universe has no meaning, we’re all just gonna die anyway, so why not just do what we want? It’s pretty inconsequential in the greater scheme of things, no? You don’t see bears or lions concerning themselves with the feelings or well-being of others, so what makes humans different? From whence did we develop our sense of morality? For me, life makes so much more sense when you believe in God.
Yeah, I guess I understand that, but I still think it's one of those slippery slope kind of arguments. We are distinct from animals, we do have the ability to distinguish right from wrong, we can empathize, sympathize, and know very well when we're causing harm to others. We may have a little more trouble discerning when we're causing harm to ourselves, and that's a whole other kettle of fish worth exploring, maybe. I know I'm not everyone, but I want to do good in the world, be a better person, raise healthy, whole children, and contribute in meaningful ways. It matters very much to me that humans try to be their best selves and I do believe how we treat one another is of great consequence, whether one believes in God or not. But maybe I'm more rare than a good man who doesn't watch porn! Lol! But maybe it's also no accident that there seems to be a huge chasm opening up in our society now- those actively seeking the light seem to be led to religion (like Russell Brand, for instance) and those seeking self-gratification are indulging in ever more outlandish debauchery (sacrificing children on the altar of trans ideology comes easily to mind). Even if you're not religious, you can't help but notice this trend towards satanic imagery, as well. It can't be coincidence. Maybe it's time to consider throwing my lot in with those actively and unashamedly seeking the light, even if structured religion feels foreign to me. Good luck to my husband! 🤣
I am pretty sure that things are not sin because they are written in the Bible but instead that the Bible is written about the sin that was and is already the problem. The Bible is a way to be able to learn about sin before having to experience it in order to learn why those behaviors cause harm.
I'm not particularly religious (but I do love your writing!) and I'm here to tell Christian women and men - PORN MAKES YOU TERRIBLE IN BED. Don't start with it, and if you're currently consuming it, do whatever it takes to quit. You might be quite a catch in every other way but I can guarantee your inability to have a loving, fulfilling sex life if you're into porn. Women, take a hard pass on men who consume that filth.
Thankful to be married to a man who doesn't touch the stuff.
When I was dating, there was a change in how men treated me once smartphones arrived. Maybe it became more accessible? Maybe it was my taste in men? They were rougher. They didnt seem to notice my reactions when they handled me roughly. They even thought I liked it but I was scared. They were more likely to have a set idea of how things would go. It just felt wrong. So I broke things off. Glad it never went beyond kissing. They said I was crazy. I am so glad I walked away.
I have heard of all kinds of horrid habits my friends have put up with. Choking seems to come up a lot. If a person choking you in a private convo isn't ok, how is it ok in the bedroom?
My kids will be taught that porn is bad for you whether you are a man or a woman. I won't buy my kids devices and will steer clear of school systems that require them.
I would extend grace. It's so hard to avoid. When I was trying to fix my mastitis, I came across a porn link (!!!). I cannot count the amount of spam trash messages sent to me with attachments containing it. No one is perfect. It's hard to avoid and teens will be curious. But regular intentional usage would be something I would draw the line at.
I can identify with you and your husband. So many times when someone's words or deeds shock me, I work out how I should have reacted days later.
"Pornsick" is a great term for it. Young men who are full of testosterone, without friends and watching wayyyy too much porn. Then they complain that women won't date them. It's very sad for women being treated poorly but it cannot be good for those young men either.
Insist on him getting counselling from someone who specializes in porn addiction and check in to make sure he’s going to his sessions. Bring it to your pastor or priest. It’s an addiction and he needs to prove he’s “sober”. And give it a year for full repentance and change and if it’s not happening then it’s time to go.
This may sound kind of obvious, but for me it was the clear solution: read the Bible. A lot. All of it. It only works really if you read all of it. Diligently, carefully, studiously, and with faith. I don't mean this for the woman, but for the man with the porn problem. You read the Bible enough, when (not if) the urge strikes to log on...and even if you get there, you will quickly realize you are in the grip of the enemy... and log right off. Trust me on this. It works. :)
For the women out there, don't give up on us entirely. We all sin, it's kind of a given ever since, well, around Gen. 3. There are a lot of good men who succumb to temptation (only one who did not). But don't be tolerant and understanding forever. Be insistent. ... and (gently and lovingly) encourage reading the Bible.
Yes. Scripture is powerful. More is needed though.
This addiction is not a moral failing. Addicts know it is wrong, morally reprehensible and unChristlike. Even as they deny it.
Part of dealing with this plague is bringing out in the open enough that it is dealt with. We have brothers who need help. We have sisters who suffer by association.
I really don’t know where people are finding these dating pools with men who a) are willing to not have sex outside of marriage b) are not already married c) want to date me and d) exist.
6 years and counting of finding a mere handful of first and second dates based on the above criteria. I can’t imagine trying to date while adding in e) does not use porn. At least porn use is “just” a sin that can be repented of, rather than “already married” or (worse?) “doesn’t actually exist.”
This feels like the Christian version of “finance, trust fund, 6’5”, blue eyes.”
To be clear, Christians are hardly the only people who vehemently oppose porn. Radical feminists have been shouting about this for years.
The science is pretty clear that that porn rewires the brain and wreaks havoc on relationships. You’re totally free to do whatever you want with this information, of course. Just doing my part to make sure people have the info they need to make truly informed decisions.
Total empathy for your situation, though. I had to reenter the dating pool at like 35 years old, and it’s rough out there! ❤️
That is when I had to re-enter the dating pool! Am now 40 and no relationship yet.
I don’t at all disagree with you about porn. I just don’t think avoiding anyone damaged by it is as realistic as you think it is. It’s probably in large part regionally dependent; I live in a blue city in a blue state.
One thing that needs to be done moving forward is relentlessly attacking porn on legal fronts. It provides society no goods and clearly harms it. Every ounce of friction that can be put between a person and seeing porn is important.
The problem is that it really is essentially omnipresent. It’s something like asking someone to go on an extremely restrictive diet. You can always just leave your house and go to any number of restaurants catering to your exact cravings. But it’s even more difficult because that at least costs money or requires you to leave the house. More porn than a person could watch in a lifetime is always available for free in everyone’s pockets.
As long as that’s the case it will always be a constant difficulty for every man. Yes, they should avoid porn on their own. But at the same time the level of temptation combined with the ease of hiding failings just isn’t reasonable to expect people to avoid consistently. If we want to reduce the numbers of people watching porn we have to find ways to restrict its creation and distribution in every way possible.
There are two problems with that approach (respectfully). First, in the US we have a constitutional issue: the Supreme Court has long held that legal restrictions on obscenity implicate the First Amendment. It's a slippery slope problem, with a risk of banning things like Joyce's *Ulysses*. Second, there is a personal responsibility component of this. Laws that are designed to protect us from our own foolishness are the province of totalitarian regimes, or theocracies. And there will always be a "dark web," a black market. Porn is not going to go away because it is outlawed, nor will deterrence measures stop those who really want it. The problem must be confronted on a personal level, that is how we are saved, not by dictatorial mandates.
Amy Sousa made a solid point when she wrote, “Porn isn’t speech; it’s action. When women are beaten, those are real bruises, anal prolapse, vomit, tears, it’s filmed abuse. Why should men have the right to abuse women for profit and pleasure?”
Film (or photography etc.) is most assuredly speech under any legal definition. If the underlying conduct is unlawful - like child porn, bestiality, rape... and God forbid but it happens, "snuff films" - then that conduct should absolutely be prosecuted. And it is, regularly. I think when people are talking about "porn", for the most part they are talking about "voluntary" participation. Of course, that concept is itself loaded - is it voluntary if you do it out of poverty and desperation? Drug addition (which may be created or encouraged)? Various kinds of blackmail? Many complex questions, but they are not limited to porn per se. These questions go to the very nature of our society. I would hope there is not a judge who has ever sat on any court in the history of this nation who would say that "men have a right to abuse women for profit and pleasure." (Or vice versa, or men to abuse men, women to abuse women, etc.) It's just not that simple. This is not a problem that has a "legal solution." It is, in fact, a moral problem. Morals should not be legislated (don't forget my comments above about underlying illegality). I'll ask you in turn, Kaeley... can you conceive of a form of erotica that is acceptable? There's your problem.
Correct in both ways. That said, large open studios are known for rampant drug use. Protesting around them could also cause difficulties for them. As I said, every attempt should be made. The battle should be fought to make porn its own category, one which isn’t protected. It causes direct, provable harm. Simply because it is difficult doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. Most worthwhile things are difficult.
As for personal responsibility you’re correct that no deference will stop everyone but every deterrent will stope *someone*. As I said, the point isn’t to stop everyone. It’s to put as much friction between the individual and porn as possible. Some people will crawl over broken glass for their fix. But not nearly as many as currently do.
Before I married I required that his videos be given back to his friend. The friend wrapped them up as something blue and we opened at our gift opening. Friend is crossed off. With his okay I pulled the tape out of the cartridges and tossed in the garbage.
That left his pile of mags his father gave him. Nice. I left those alone til my 50s. Asked if I could shred them as it would be shameful if the kids saw them if we died (probably already did) and he said go ahead. It was my pleasure.
This is neither here no there but I do believe if I'd pressed the issue earlier he would have complied. Yes I think I have good one.
We had many talks about what was portrayed on the screen, in the mags and what women actually want. How ridiculous it all was. Yes I watched them. Yes i read them. I've forayed online to compare and there is no comparison. I may have read and saw only mild old timey stuff but the online stuff is disturbing.
Also, I worked in the public library most of my career and women were very feminist at that time (so betrayed by what they've turned into). We screened Not A Love Story. Well worth watching these many years later. My young mind was in shock at the time. Everybody got an earful.
My oldest sons will be dating age soon and this is something my husband and I have talked over a lot. I am grateful to him because even though he had very little guidance from his own father, he's buckled down and done the difficult, awkward work of being available to our sons to talk about this stuff with them. At some point, there's not much more we can do besides pray for them, but I really hope they don't get sucked into this.
We've tried hard to convey to them that sexual desire is not only normal but good, but just like with food or any other pleasure it can be misused for bad ends, and that people are not things that exist for our own enjoyment, *even if they put themselves out there as objects to be consumed.* We've tried to teach them that self-control is a gift from the Spirit and that even when it is difficult, it is possible, and when they fall to confess and try again. But lies about this stuff can be very persuasive.
I’m loving that both men and women are commenting.
Of of my concerns is that in speaking candidly about how terrible porn is, we can inadvertently trigger a shame response in those who struggle with it, inspiring them to just increase their efforts to hide the problem rather than addressing it head on.
To be clear, it would be entirely their fault if they chose this route. We should be free to say whatever needs to be said. Still, knowing human nature for what it is, it’s not a terrible thing to try to strike a balance or work to soften the blow if there’s a way.
I want to extend grace and not eliminate the majority of the dating pool, but ultimately I fall on the side of “don’t date a man who struggles with porn.” If he really wants to date you, pursues you, and really wants a chance, allow him to present to you his action plan, his accountability measures, initiate conversations about how he’s growing/changing, and regularly be the one to update you. I don’t think it’s healthy *in a dating relationship* for a woman who is not married to a man to have to take on the accountability role that recovering from porn demands. Too many married women are forced to in order to try to save their marriage. But if you’re dating and he’s not the one initiating every one of those steps? Not worth it.
Great point!
This is excellent! I agree 💯!
YES. THIS.
Another reader messaged me to recommend the book “Unwanted” by Jay Stringer as a resource for those struggling with addiction.
Unwanted is the only book that has actually been a help for me outside of scripture.
Someone reached out to me privately and mentioned that, in his own journey to overcome porn, he’s had to learn not to be too specific when sharing the details of his struggle with his accountability partners.
He said, deep down, just talking about the details was a way for him to secretly relive the fantasy in his brain. He also said that graphic descriptions can be a stumbling block for accountability partners.
I appreciated his perspective. I wouldn’t have thought of this.
Here is what I know from researching the subject. Porn is an addiction and rewires the brain. It is said to be more potent than cocaine. Porn kills the soul, it kills the family, and it fuels abuse of women and children who are used/abused to make it. There are few things more atrocious than porn. Do not get romantically involved with someone who watches it, it will hurt you to the core. A majority (not all) of abusers are porn consumers.
It takes dedication with specific programs, very narrow accountability, and an especially close walk with the Lord to get free of that bondage. It takes humility and being willing to recognize fully the pain that being a consumer of that filth brings to so many people.
One can be helping with providing support and accountability for a friend struggling with it but getting romantically involve will mostly bring a lot of pain.
Well said!
I have an honest question: what if you're not religious? Is religion the only antidote to porn? I'm asking in 100% good faith. Porn ruins lives, not just for Christians. It's not because it's the biblical definition of a sin, it's genuinely bad for everyone, from the "performers", to the producers, to the consumers, whether one believes God condemns it, or not. I have a young daughter and I honestly don't know what to tell her about dating anymore. I counsel her to wait until marriage to have sex, her body is precious and hers alone, and not to date anyone who watches porn, but I'm feeling pretty hopeless that such men will exist by the time she's old enough to date, given the ubiquitousness of porn. You can't even watch a TV commercial without being bombarded with imagery and content that would have been considered "soft-core" porn just a few decades ago! I'll keep checking the comments because I genuinely want guidance and advice. Thank you for posting this!
Good question. I write from a Christian perspective, and the initial question she posed was specific to the Christian response, but yes, it’s relatively easy to denounce porn from a secular angle, and I don’t think anyone does that better than the site I referenced in my blog: Fight the New Drug.
Their research is steeped in scientific analysis that’s really hard to dispute. I would definitely start there! Www.fightthenewdrug.org
Thank you so much for your response! I'll definitely check that out. I'm just wondering if religion really is the only antidote to this scourge. It's just so crazy that we live in these times where people can't strengthen their own inner moral compass without being ordered to specifically by God. I'm not opposed to religion in any way, and I do believe in God, but my family doesn't go to church. My husband comes from a jehovah's witness family, so he's very opposed to religion. It's a weird place to be in, especially when it comes to raising good, moral humans! I guess it begs the larger question: can we be decent, loving, and moral without religion? Maybe not.
I’m not going to lie to you; I think I it definitely helps to believe in an ultimate, fixed standard of good.
There are a lot of agnostic and atheist (especially in radical feminist) communities who can just easily identify the inherent harm of the porn industry and denounce it outright on the grounds that it causes so much human suffering, and they think that is immoral without having to connect it to a god. I can’t speak for them, so I won’t presume to try, but I know a lot of them follow this blog, so hopefully some will chime in and offer their perspective.
Personally, my mind won’t let me rest there because I can’t avoid a wrestling match with questions like, “If there is no God, does it ultimately matter if people harm others? If we’re all a cosmic accident and the universe has no meaning, we’re all just gonna die anyway, so why not just do what we want? It’s pretty inconsequential in the greater scheme of things, no? You don’t see bears or lions concerning themselves with the feelings or well-being of others, so what makes humans different? From whence did we develop our sense of morality? For me, life makes so much more sense when you believe in God.
Yeah, I guess I understand that, but I still think it's one of those slippery slope kind of arguments. We are distinct from animals, we do have the ability to distinguish right from wrong, we can empathize, sympathize, and know very well when we're causing harm to others. We may have a little more trouble discerning when we're causing harm to ourselves, and that's a whole other kettle of fish worth exploring, maybe. I know I'm not everyone, but I want to do good in the world, be a better person, raise healthy, whole children, and contribute in meaningful ways. It matters very much to me that humans try to be their best selves and I do believe how we treat one another is of great consequence, whether one believes in God or not. But maybe I'm more rare than a good man who doesn't watch porn! Lol! But maybe it's also no accident that there seems to be a huge chasm opening up in our society now- those actively seeking the light seem to be led to religion (like Russell Brand, for instance) and those seeking self-gratification are indulging in ever more outlandish debauchery (sacrificing children on the altar of trans ideology comes easily to mind). Even if you're not religious, you can't help but notice this trend towards satanic imagery, as well. It can't be coincidence. Maybe it's time to consider throwing my lot in with those actively and unashamedly seeking the light, even if structured religion feels foreign to me. Good luck to my husband! 🤣
I am pretty sure that things are not sin because they are written in the Bible but instead that the Bible is written about the sin that was and is already the problem. The Bible is a way to be able to learn about sin before having to experience it in order to learn why those behaviors cause harm.
I'm not particularly religious (but I do love your writing!) and I'm here to tell Christian women and men - PORN MAKES YOU TERRIBLE IN BED. Don't start with it, and if you're currently consuming it, do whatever it takes to quit. You might be quite a catch in every other way but I can guarantee your inability to have a loving, fulfilling sex life if you're into porn. Women, take a hard pass on men who consume that filth.
This phrase taught me so much: “rage is shame’s bodyguard.”
Thank you for starting an important conversation with your post.
Thankful to be married to a man who doesn't touch the stuff.
When I was dating, there was a change in how men treated me once smartphones arrived. Maybe it became more accessible? Maybe it was my taste in men? They were rougher. They didnt seem to notice my reactions when they handled me roughly. They even thought I liked it but I was scared. They were more likely to have a set idea of how things would go. It just felt wrong. So I broke things off. Glad it never went beyond kissing. They said I was crazy. I am so glad I walked away.
I have heard of all kinds of horrid habits my friends have put up with. Choking seems to come up a lot. If a person choking you in a private convo isn't ok, how is it ok in the bedroom?
My kids will be taught that porn is bad for you whether you are a man or a woman. I won't buy my kids devices and will steer clear of school systems that require them.
I would extend grace. It's so hard to avoid. When I was trying to fix my mastitis, I came across a porn link (!!!). I cannot count the amount of spam trash messages sent to me with attachments containing it. No one is perfect. It's hard to avoid and teens will be curious. But regular intentional usage would be something I would draw the line at.
I can identify with you and your husband. So many times when someone's words or deeds shock me, I work out how I should have reacted days later.
"Pornsick" is a great term for it. Young men who are full of testosterone, without friends and watching wayyyy too much porn. Then they complain that women won't date them. It's very sad for women being treated poorly but it cannot be good for those young men either.
Insist on him getting counselling from someone who specializes in porn addiction and check in to make sure he’s going to his sessions. Bring it to your pastor or priest. It’s an addiction and he needs to prove he’s “sober”. And give it a year for full repentance and change and if it’s not happening then it’s time to go.
This may sound kind of obvious, but for me it was the clear solution: read the Bible. A lot. All of it. It only works really if you read all of it. Diligently, carefully, studiously, and with faith. I don't mean this for the woman, but for the man with the porn problem. You read the Bible enough, when (not if) the urge strikes to log on...and even if you get there, you will quickly realize you are in the grip of the enemy... and log right off. Trust me on this. It works. :)
For the women out there, don't give up on us entirely. We all sin, it's kind of a given ever since, well, around Gen. 3. There are a lot of good men who succumb to temptation (only one who did not). But don't be tolerant and understanding forever. Be insistent. ... and (gently and lovingly) encourage reading the Bible.
Yes. Scripture is powerful. More is needed though.
This addiction is not a moral failing. Addicts know it is wrong, morally reprehensible and unChristlike. Even as they deny it.
Part of dealing with this plague is bringing out in the open enough that it is dealt with. We have brothers who need help. We have sisters who suffer by association.
We need more articles like this.
I really don’t know where people are finding these dating pools with men who a) are willing to not have sex outside of marriage b) are not already married c) want to date me and d) exist.
6 years and counting of finding a mere handful of first and second dates based on the above criteria. I can’t imagine trying to date while adding in e) does not use porn. At least porn use is “just” a sin that can be repented of, rather than “already married” or (worse?) “doesn’t actually exist.”
This feels like the Christian version of “finance, trust fund, 6’5”, blue eyes.”
To be clear, Christians are hardly the only people who vehemently oppose porn. Radical feminists have been shouting about this for years.
The science is pretty clear that that porn rewires the brain and wreaks havoc on relationships. You’re totally free to do whatever you want with this information, of course. Just doing my part to make sure people have the info they need to make truly informed decisions.
Total empathy for your situation, though. I had to reenter the dating pool at like 35 years old, and it’s rough out there! ❤️
That is when I had to re-enter the dating pool! Am now 40 and no relationship yet.
I don’t at all disagree with you about porn. I just don’t think avoiding anyone damaged by it is as realistic as you think it is. It’s probably in large part regionally dependent; I live in a blue city in a blue state.
Don’t give up. There are good porn-free men out there, and you deserve one. ❤️
One thing that needs to be done moving forward is relentlessly attacking porn on legal fronts. It provides society no goods and clearly harms it. Every ounce of friction that can be put between a person and seeing porn is important.
The problem is that it really is essentially omnipresent. It’s something like asking someone to go on an extremely restrictive diet. You can always just leave your house and go to any number of restaurants catering to your exact cravings. But it’s even more difficult because that at least costs money or requires you to leave the house. More porn than a person could watch in a lifetime is always available for free in everyone’s pockets.
As long as that’s the case it will always be a constant difficulty for every man. Yes, they should avoid porn on their own. But at the same time the level of temptation combined with the ease of hiding failings just isn’t reasonable to expect people to avoid consistently. If we want to reduce the numbers of people watching porn we have to find ways to restrict its creation and distribution in every way possible.
There are two problems with that approach (respectfully). First, in the US we have a constitutional issue: the Supreme Court has long held that legal restrictions on obscenity implicate the First Amendment. It's a slippery slope problem, with a risk of banning things like Joyce's *Ulysses*. Second, there is a personal responsibility component of this. Laws that are designed to protect us from our own foolishness are the province of totalitarian regimes, or theocracies. And there will always be a "dark web," a black market. Porn is not going to go away because it is outlawed, nor will deterrence measures stop those who really want it. The problem must be confronted on a personal level, that is how we are saved, not by dictatorial mandates.
Good conversation here.
Amy Sousa made a solid point when she wrote, “Porn isn’t speech; it’s action. When women are beaten, those are real bruises, anal prolapse, vomit, tears, it’s filmed abuse. Why should men have the right to abuse women for profit and pleasure?”
Thoughts?
Film (or photography etc.) is most assuredly speech under any legal definition. If the underlying conduct is unlawful - like child porn, bestiality, rape... and God forbid but it happens, "snuff films" - then that conduct should absolutely be prosecuted. And it is, regularly. I think when people are talking about "porn", for the most part they are talking about "voluntary" participation. Of course, that concept is itself loaded - is it voluntary if you do it out of poverty and desperation? Drug addition (which may be created or encouraged)? Various kinds of blackmail? Many complex questions, but they are not limited to porn per se. These questions go to the very nature of our society. I would hope there is not a judge who has ever sat on any court in the history of this nation who would say that "men have a right to abuse women for profit and pleasure." (Or vice versa, or men to abuse men, women to abuse women, etc.) It's just not that simple. This is not a problem that has a "legal solution." It is, in fact, a moral problem. Morals should not be legislated (don't forget my comments above about underlying illegality). I'll ask you in turn, Kaeley... can you conceive of a form of erotica that is acceptable? There's your problem.
Correct in both ways. That said, large open studios are known for rampant drug use. Protesting around them could also cause difficulties for them. As I said, every attempt should be made. The battle should be fought to make porn its own category, one which isn’t protected. It causes direct, provable harm. Simply because it is difficult doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. Most worthwhile things are difficult.
As for personal responsibility you’re correct that no deference will stop everyone but every deterrent will stope *someone*. As I said, the point isn’t to stop everyone. It’s to put as much friction between the individual and porn as possible. Some people will crawl over broken glass for their fix. But not nearly as many as currently do.
Before I married I required that his videos be given back to his friend. The friend wrapped them up as something blue and we opened at our gift opening. Friend is crossed off. With his okay I pulled the tape out of the cartridges and tossed in the garbage.
That left his pile of mags his father gave him. Nice. I left those alone til my 50s. Asked if I could shred them as it would be shameful if the kids saw them if we died (probably already did) and he said go ahead. It was my pleasure.
This is neither here no there but I do believe if I'd pressed the issue earlier he would have complied. Yes I think I have good one.
We had many talks about what was portrayed on the screen, in the mags and what women actually want. How ridiculous it all was. Yes I watched them. Yes i read them. I've forayed online to compare and there is no comparison. I may have read and saw only mild old timey stuff but the online stuff is disturbing.
Also, I worked in the public library most of my career and women were very feminist at that time (so betrayed by what they've turned into). We screened Not A Love Story. Well worth watching these many years later. My young mind was in shock at the time. Everybody got an earful.
My oldest sons will be dating age soon and this is something my husband and I have talked over a lot. I am grateful to him because even though he had very little guidance from his own father, he's buckled down and done the difficult, awkward work of being available to our sons to talk about this stuff with them. At some point, there's not much more we can do besides pray for them, but I really hope they don't get sucked into this.
We've tried hard to convey to them that sexual desire is not only normal but good, but just like with food or any other pleasure it can be misused for bad ends, and that people are not things that exist for our own enjoyment, *even if they put themselves out there as objects to be consumed.* We've tried to teach them that self-control is a gift from the Spirit and that even when it is difficult, it is possible, and when they fall to confess and try again. But lies about this stuff can be very persuasive.
I agree with you on this.