My view about voting for a candidate is that it should never be the person who is being voted for. Only the political platform.
Even if there should ever be a candidate so wonderful that I emotionally want to think that I am voting for that person, this is a wrong way to think.
We need to vote for what we hope that person will accomplish while in office based on what they promise. Moral character is an ideal and a luxury. This was probably always true.
You can't fault yourself for not being omniscient. Only God is omniscient. Discernment is not perfection, it is something we learn through introspection and (in my view) studying the Gospel. I personally don't think discernment is a gift from God, it's a gift we give ourselves.
And speaking of perfection, there are no perfect politicians, because there are no perfect humans. We cannot fault ourselves for the flaws of the politicians we vote for, that's silly. They are the ones who will answer for their sins, not us.
I strongly dislike Donald Trump. But I voted for him, three times. And I don't regret it. He appointed the judges who ended the horror known as Roe v Wade, among many other things. But more importantly, the only other realistic options have been people whose views and policies seem to me to come straight from the enemy.
If discernment is relevant to politics (doubtful), then I think what it means is to use the power of your vote to support the lesser of two (or more) evils. Simple as that. I think you are making a mistake in imposing guilt on yourself because people you believed in turned out to be flawed. All people are flawed. Keep that in the forefront of your mind and you'll be less likely to be disappointed?
To clarify: I’m not imposing guilt on myself. It’s not a choice I’m actively making; it’s just my default response, one I’m actively working to fight. I agree with you that we shouldn’t expect ourselves to be omniscient or our candidates do be perfect.
I would like to believe we can expect ourselves candidates not to be sexual predators, though, right?
I certainly hope that we could expect our candidates to not be sexual predators. Or criminals of any sort, or immoral, or dishonest...etc. Well, maybe "expect" is a bit optimistic. I think we should hope, and then demand. But maybe not "expect"? Does that make sense?
You mentioned David. I seem to recall something about David being a bit of a sexual predator? Yet, he did great things, including uniting Israel, raising Solomon, and writing the Psalms. My late father used to say, the measure of a man is his works. Took me many years to understand that.
The problem I have with people comparing today’s politicians to David is that the key reason God was able to use David was that he loudly, thoroughly, and publicly repented. He grieved his sin. I have not seen evidence of this kind of contrition in the elected officials we are discussing here.
It’s also worth noting that, while God absolutely forgave David, his sin completely DESTROYED his family and his kingdom.
Very good point. I think sometimes we (I) tend to look to Scripture to justify something we are saying or doing, and that's not always a good approach. I think I made the David comment because you invoked David, although I realize for a different aspect of the David story. My original point was kinda lost in that.
What I was trying (not very artfully) to say is something like this - that politics and spirituality are different aspects of our lives (there are plenty of verses I could cite, but then there'd be doing it again). It would be wonderful if our political leaders were spiritually righteous, but I don't hold out much hope for that. So I cast my vote for the person that I think will be most likely to advance the things I believe in - like the right to life (as we call it, as if there should have to be a word for such a thing). Or, lacking any confidence in that, I cast my vote against those who are most likely to advance the opposites. I think this is what most of us do, no? And I never look back. Because the only thing I actually *expect* is more sin and failure. At least for a while yet.
Sounds kind of obvious and simplistic now that I think about.
All that said... it's been a while since I read 2 Samuel, but I have a vague recollection that it wasn't David's sin that destroyed Israel, but the sins of the people. I should read it again, along with everything else.
God bless you sister, for your integrity.
My view about voting for a candidate is that it should never be the person who is being voted for. Only the political platform.
Even if there should ever be a candidate so wonderful that I emotionally want to think that I am voting for that person, this is a wrong way to think.
We need to vote for what we hope that person will accomplish while in office based on what they promise. Moral character is an ideal and a luxury. This was probably always true.
You can't fault yourself for not being omniscient. Only God is omniscient. Discernment is not perfection, it is something we learn through introspection and (in my view) studying the Gospel. I personally don't think discernment is a gift from God, it's a gift we give ourselves.
And speaking of perfection, there are no perfect politicians, because there are no perfect humans. We cannot fault ourselves for the flaws of the politicians we vote for, that's silly. They are the ones who will answer for their sins, not us.
I strongly dislike Donald Trump. But I voted for him, three times. And I don't regret it. He appointed the judges who ended the horror known as Roe v Wade, among many other things. But more importantly, the only other realistic options have been people whose views and policies seem to me to come straight from the enemy.
If discernment is relevant to politics (doubtful), then I think what it means is to use the power of your vote to support the lesser of two (or more) evils. Simple as that. I think you are making a mistake in imposing guilt on yourself because people you believed in turned out to be flawed. All people are flawed. Keep that in the forefront of your mind and you'll be less likely to be disappointed?
To clarify: I’m not imposing guilt on myself. It’s not a choice I’m actively making; it’s just my default response, one I’m actively working to fight. I agree with you that we shouldn’t expect ourselves to be omniscient or our candidates do be perfect.
I would like to believe we can expect ourselves candidates not to be sexual predators, though, right?
Distinction without a difference? :)
I certainly hope that we could expect our candidates to not be sexual predators. Or criminals of any sort, or immoral, or dishonest...etc. Well, maybe "expect" is a bit optimistic. I think we should hope, and then demand. But maybe not "expect"? Does that make sense?
You mentioned David. I seem to recall something about David being a bit of a sexual predator? Yet, he did great things, including uniting Israel, raising Solomon, and writing the Psalms. My late father used to say, the measure of a man is his works. Took me many years to understand that.
The problem I have with people comparing today’s politicians to David is that the key reason God was able to use David was that he loudly, thoroughly, and publicly repented. He grieved his sin. I have not seen evidence of this kind of contrition in the elected officials we are discussing here.
It’s also worth noting that, while God absolutely forgave David, his sin completely DESTROYED his family and his kingdom.
Very good point. I think sometimes we (I) tend to look to Scripture to justify something we are saying or doing, and that's not always a good approach. I think I made the David comment because you invoked David, although I realize for a different aspect of the David story. My original point was kinda lost in that.
What I was trying (not very artfully) to say is something like this - that politics and spirituality are different aspects of our lives (there are plenty of verses I could cite, but then there'd be doing it again). It would be wonderful if our political leaders were spiritually righteous, but I don't hold out much hope for that. So I cast my vote for the person that I think will be most likely to advance the things I believe in - like the right to life (as we call it, as if there should have to be a word for such a thing). Or, lacking any confidence in that, I cast my vote against those who are most likely to advance the opposites. I think this is what most of us do, no? And I never look back. Because the only thing I actually *expect* is more sin and failure. At least for a while yet.
Sounds kind of obvious and simplistic now that I think about.
All that said... it's been a while since I read 2 Samuel, but I have a vague recollection that it wasn't David's sin that destroyed Israel, but the sins of the people. I should read it again, along with everything else.
Good distinction with hope, demand, and expect.